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- by hcs at 7:12 PM EDT on October 23, 2008
- Apologies for the length of the following treatise, but I'm trying to clearly explain my position rather than make a little joke.
Obviously if you are only concerned with copyright then yes, it is covered equally any time within the obscenely long copyright period. But copyright law is not (yet, at least) something enforced automatically; some action on the part of the copyright holder is required. And that action is more likely to come if the copyright holder feels threatened by the violation. Which is more likely to happen in the time frame immediately following (and preceding!) the release of the OST, as the vast majority of sales are within a few weeks of release of most entertainment products.
Now, I don't think that Knurek is necessarily worried about being served with a takedown notice, nor am I as the host. But what remains is the competition posed by the 2sf set vs the OST release. While we like to spread the good news of music, we don't want to do harm by doing so. People are impatient (which I don't think requires any argument), and without the 2sf option for several months some may choose the OST. Some may not, and may choose to rip the 2sfs themselves or get them from another source, but we don't have to support that. Importantly, we don't have to do anything at all.
I try to avoid the "take what you can get because we don't owe you anything" argument because it feels too confrontational, and I'm trying to explain, not confront. Consider that ripping and sharing this music has its costs and benefits, like anything else.
The costs include the time involved in ripping and maintaining the site, the legal risk, and moral concerns involved with copying creative works.
The benefits include some prestige, and sharing fun stuff with others.
The vast majority of people (myself included) consider the costs too great. We are fortunate that Knurek has considered it worth his time to rip hundreds of games and make them available to us. However, for some games, the cost of the potential offense to the makers outweighs any benefits he perceives. The fact that he even considers this cost, which is a fairly non-obvious cost, indicates that he has given considerable thought to the situation. You're probably not going to argue him out of it. The fact that he cited the duration of copyright like he did should indicate to you that it is not the overriding concern.
So, as a supporter of Knurek's work, I also support his decision on how to manage 2sf Central. If it is wasted effort it is certainly his to waste.
- by SmartOne at 9:09 PM EDT on October 23, 2008
- Hcs, thank you for that lengthy and sincere analysis. :) I rest my case.
- by Knurek at 12:32 PM EDT on October 25, 2008
- Manly Site just got updated, rejoice.
Pretty large, 500 MB this time. Thanks to all the people who contributed to this update (whether by ripping or tagging, both greatly appreciated).
New stuff as usual here:
http://hcs64.com/2sf/new.html
New sets:
Away - Shuffle Dungeon (2008)(Artoon, Mistwalker, AQ Interactive)
Blue Dragon Plus (2008)(FeelPlus, AQ Interactive)
Commando - Steel Disaster (2008)(Mana Comp., XS Games)
Crash Bandicoot - Mind Over Mutant (2008)(Tose, Activision Blizzard)
Dungeon of Windaria (2008)(Compile Heart)
Exit (2008)(Taito)
Front Mission 2089 - Border of Madness (2008)(h.a.n.d., Square Enix)
Galileo (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Hercules no Eikou - Tamashii no Shoumei (2008)(Paon Corporation, Nintendo)
Hoshizora no Comic Garden (2008)(HuneX, D3 Publisher)
K-1 World GP (2007)(D3 Publisher)
Kawaii Koinu DS (2006)(MTO)
Kawaii Koinu DS 2 (2008)(MTO)
Kawaii Koneko DS (2008)(MTO)
Ketsui Death Label (2008)(Cave, Arika)
Kirby Super Star Ultra (2008)(HAL Laboratory, Nintendo)
Kumatanchi (2008)(Dimple)
Legend of Spyro, The - The Eternal Night (2007)(Amaze, Sierra)
Loopop Cube - Loop Salad DS (2008)(Dimple)
Madden NFL 09 (2008)(Electronic Arts)
Major DS - Dream Baseball (2008)(Takara Tomy)
Mechanic Master (2008)(Midway)
Mugen no Frontier - Super Robot Taisen OG Saga (2008)(Monolith, Banpresto, Bandai Namco)
Ochaken no Heya DS 3 (2008)(MTO)
Pop Cutie! Street Fashion Simulation (2008)(Koei)
Power Pro Kun Pocket 10 (2007)(Konami)
Pro Yakyuu Famista DS (2007)(Bandai Namco)
Quiz Magic Academy DS (2008)(Konami)
Rain Drops (2008)(UFO Interactive)
Retro Game Challenge (2007)(Bandai Namco)
Saihai no Yukue (2008)(Koei)
Shinreigari - Ghost Hound DS (2008)(5pb)
Simple DS Series Vol. 37 - Arc de Minitsuku! Toeic Test Listening Kyouka Hen (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 38 - Arc de Manabu! Toeic Test Hajimete Hen (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 39 - The Shouboutai (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 40 - The Gekai (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 41 - The Bakudan Shori-Han (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 42 - The Haioku Byoutou (2008)(D3 Publisher)
Simple DS Series Vol. 44 - The Gal Mahjong (2008)(D3 Publisher)
SNK vs. Capcom Card Fighters DS (2006)(SNK Playmore)
Soul Bubbles (2008)(Mekensleep, Eidos)
Soul Eater - Medusa no Inbou (2008)(Bandai Namco)
Spectral Force Genesis (2007)(Idea Factory)
Steal Princess - Touzoku Oujo (2008)(Climax, Marvelous)
Steel Horizon (2007)(Konami)
Summon Night (2008)(Flight Plan, Bandai Namco)
Super Dodgeball Brawlers (2008)(Million, Arc System Works)
Tak - Mojo Mistake (2008)(THQ)
The Price is Right (2008)(Ubisoft)
Wagamama Fashion - Girls Mode (2008)(Nintendo)
Ys DS (2008)(Falcom, Interchannel-Holon)
Ys II DS (2008)(Falcom, Interchannel-Holon)
Updates:
Kirby - Canvas Curse (2005)(HAL Laboratory, Nintendo)
Ripped a while ago, but available for download now:
Bangai-O Spirits (2008)(Treasure, ESP)
Otometeki Koi Kakumei * Love Revo!! DS (2008)(Interchannel-Holon)
Time Hollow - Ubawareta Kako o Motomete (2008)(Tenky, Konami)
Ripped, not available for download yet:
Castlevania - Order of Ecclesia (2008)(Konami)
Culdcept DS (2008)(Sega)
Fire Emblem - Shin Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Ken (2008)(Intelligent Systems, Nintendo) - taken down since there's an OST release upcoming
Kimi no Yusha (2008)(SNK Playmore)
Professor Layton and the Curious Village (2007)(Level 5) - taken down since there's an OST release upcoming
Rhythm Heaven (2008)(Nintendo)
edited 12:36 PM EDT October 25, 2008
- by Mouser X at 7:26 PM EDT on October 25, 2008
- I was reading an interview with Chibi-tech (here), and I saw this line:
It's definitely in contrast to how American/European developers traditionally throw in existing licensed songs and call it hard work, or hiring famous film composers who flaunt their mega-bux gigastudio symphony racks as a lure to spit out uninspiring tripe into a loose hodgepodge (lol sonic chronicles lol).
This was in reference to the method used by Japanese developers in regards to music. While I agree that the music to Sonic Chronicles is... simple... I would also say that, although it could be better (hopefully the sequal will be (if there's a sequal)), it's not too bad. It fits the game reasonably well. I do think Richard Jacques wrote the streamed songs (battle music mostly/entirely), but I doubt (or should I say "I hope he didn't") he wrote the sequenced stuff. If I were to rate the music (the sequences), I'd say it was above average (in this scale, starting at average, there's "average," "above average," "good," "really good," and "Wow!" Something that I'd list under "really good/Wow" might be... something from Deep Labyrinth? Yasunori Mitsuda did a really good job with limited resources. I'm sure there's better examples, but I can't think of very many right now).
Something interesting I found when trying to find the correct spelling of Richard Jacques' name was this. Apparently, the music to Sonic Chronicles is using stuff from Gameboy hardware (that's how I read it), which might partially explain why it sounds... odd... sometimes. On a similar note, I decided to look up the review on Metacritic. It has a 74 out of 100 average. I disagree. Any game that can keep me up past 5 am multiple times in four days is definitely better than a 74. And this is keeping in mind that I have to get up at 6:30 am to go to some of my college classes.
As for the music though, I will agree with most people that it's disappointing. Not because it's bad (though, I suspect that many people think it is), but because of the wasted potential it had. It's okay. Hopefully it will be better if a sequel comes out (if a sequel does come out, I will almost certainly buy it without thinking twice).
[EDIT] Ah man!!! I just found some of these links. While the music in the game is okay, some of this stuff would have been *!WAY!* better!!! (linked in order that the 2SF set has them in (first 4 songs). Though, I don't recall if the Chao Garden has its own song in the game.)
Green Hill Zone
Central City
Mystic Ruins
Blue Ridge Zone
Chao Garden
Worth a mention - From some trailer
Apparently, all of those songs are pulled from some trailer for the game somewhere. I have no idea of their validity (as in, whether they were part of the game's development process at all, ever), so perhaps those songs were never meant to be part of the game anyway. Or, perhaps they weren't used because the game's data would have taken up too much space on the NDS cart, and they were therefore cut out, resulting in the music the game has now.
In regards to that, I thought this was interesting. This (Green Hill Zone) is the music in the game. Looking at the date, it was posted before the one I linked above. Perhaps these were "placeholder" tracks with the intention of replacing them with better music. But as development went further, they realized they wouldn't be able to include the "replacements," so they kept the "placeholders" instead. Personally, I'm somewhat doubting this, because the difference in the dates (and the release of the game) are such that I would have expected them to have relized the spatial concerns long before those post dates. I don't know either way, but it is still disappointing... Mouser X over and out.
edited 9:36 PM EDT October 25, 2008
- by SmartOne at 7:57 PM EDT on October 25, 2008
- Just skimmed through the 2sf set. Wow, that is really disappointing. I'm all for retro sounds, but they should have sampled the Sega Genesis or something. :P The PSG might've been acceptable if it was well done, but...
Knurek, awesome work as always.
- by snakemeat at 12:12 AM EDT on October 26, 2008
- 2sfTimer r5 released. Same updates as r4 and a small bug fix.
Also, since SDAT tool only extracts an sseq file once (based on the id column in the smap), some files end up in the "Unused or Empty" folder, be sure to check that these files are really empty. If they are not, find the matching file id for another sseq file in the smap and use that timing info. I'll see if I can add this logic to the timer soon, but it's something I've encountered that could lead to missing tunes if you are not careful.
Anyhow, enjoy. Grab it here.
edited 12:12 AM EDT October 26, 2008
- by marcusss at 10:06 PM EDT on October 26, 2008
- Music from Order of Ecclesia rocks so yeah look forward to that 2sf release. Can understand while its not released as there is an OST out, but ost is far better of course since it contains the arranged music also :) Look forward to the 2sf release tho ^_^
- by holyice7 at 2:58 AM EDT on October 29, 2008
- Oh feh, not only is the Order of Ecclesia OST a Japanese only preorder, it's missing one of my favorite tracks. Cantus Motetten -2, for those in the know.
I should know; I just spent the last hour re-naming the ripped tracks to rid the files of their poorly-Romanized Japanophelia.
I have to give it credit for what it's worth, though; the looped tracks all have a proper 10 second fade. They're not all quite exact, but it's enough to be considered uniform, which tickles me just right. Mmmmm....
edited 2:58 AM EDT October 29, 2008
- by marcusss at 7:32 AM EDT on October 29, 2008
- Yeah the ost sounds great :)(if only a lossless version was available, its good some of the great or cool songs loop twice. Sometimes they have a habit of only playing a song once through before it fades... So that was good ..but yeah like PoR they should of had 1 cd for game audio and the other for arranged .. awww still the arranged tracks , tho only a handful, do sound great :-)
I'm in Oz and yeah game won't be released to sometime rediculous like Jan 09.. Have to just import it I guess .. can kiss the chances of getting that cd too unless we import it. stupid stupid stupid ! All us PAL users get screwed as usual.. Lucky the ds isn't region locked Thank F***ing christ :D
- by Knurek at 8:23 AM EDT on October 29, 2008
- Not sure if anyone else noticed, but with the last update we've broken the 500 sets barrier.
Here's to all the guys who helped with this and to another 500 sets.
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