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- by Mouser X at 4:51 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- "CHannel splitting" can't really be done on the DS. That is, unlike the NES (NSF) or SNES (SPC), which have specific hardware registers that can be enabled/disabled, the DS does most of its stuff through software. Yes, I'm aware that the DS does have hardware registers which can be enabled/disabled, but they're not used in the same way as the SNES/NES were. The "mixing" is done in software. Think of it this way - with a MIDI, you can turn instruments/channels on/off. But that's done using the program that's playing the MIDI file. You can't alter the output by disabling certain pieces of hardware on your computer (excluding muting the left/right stereo channels). 2SFs are similar in that the "player" doesn't actually play anything. It's an emulated environment that allows the NDS software (contained in the 2SF) to run. This software has been modified to output only audio (supposedly), which is why you get music from 2SFs. To alter the output, the only thing the "player" can do (which is an emulated environment) is to disable/enable pieces of hardware. Like your PC, this isn't going to do much to alter the sound output.
In other words, it's not a limitation of the 2SF format that's stopping you from muting channels, as much as it is the NDS hardware that's stopping you from doing it. However, it should be possible, with enough skill and expertise, to modify the software in the 2SF to play back specific channels (this would have to be during the ripping process. It's not something that can be implemented in the player for the reasons stated above), just as you can with USFs.
As for question 2 - my understanding is that UF is simply trying to make the 2SF format more compatible. For example, USFs are tied to Project 64 pretty tightly. I think it's because USFs use a savestate to bypass the N64 boot code. This savestate is in the PJ64 format. It's one of the reasons you don't see more USF players out there. At least, that's my understanding. If I'm not mistaken, UF is imply trying to avoid this problem. As far as I know, he has no plans to no longer use DesMume, but I haven't actually asked him.
Hopefully that answers your question(s). Mouser X over and out.
- by Lunar at 5:02 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- i can't be bothered to read all that, but the 2sf config seems to have channel muting (16 MIDI channels I am guessing, so it'd probably only work with generic driver games - i haven't tested it out.)
- by Mouser X at 5:14 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- That's not that much... Besides, you can certainly skim it fast enough. As for muting channels in the way you're proposing, it would require that the player be able to modify memory dynamically, as it's running. And that would only work on "generic driver" games that happen to work exactly as the player expects them to (using the same memory and whatnot). This is very unlikely to happen (that games happen to do the exact same thing in the exact same piece of memory). With the current 2SF rips, it might be possible, because most of them are using the Yoshi's Island driver (and thus might use the exact same memory to do the exact same thing). But this is not the ideal situation, and when more rips are done "properly" (using their own driver), the method you seem to propose will almost certainly break.
I know of the 2SF config thing you're referring to, but I haven't experimented with it enough to find out what it's doing. Mouser X over and out.
- by Knurek at 5:14 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- What Mouser X is trying to say is that each channel is allocated dynamically (as per usual with MIDI sequencers). So each note of a lead section can span multiple hardware channels.
Mario Kart DS? The current rip, is missing Final Lap tracks and tags.
Aren't the Final Lap versions just the same song played a bit faster? Is that really necessary?
And if you think an UF rerip will magically give you a tagged set, you're in for a nasty surprise.
I'd love to see FFTA2 rerip (since the current one has about 50 MB of unneeded data) and, dunno, Soma Bringer (though if Procyon Studio sequencer is as insane as their streams, don't think anyone sane is capable of ripping it) would be nice to have.
- by unknownfile at 11:15 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- well, it's not like you tag anything either
- by Elven Spellmaker at 11:58 PM EST on January 10, 2009
- just as you can with USFs
Can you?
@MouserX: Ahh, I was wondering why the same thing hadn't been implimented into 64th Note.
Surely if VGMTrans can export as MIDI, there are set channels it uses, but as Knurek said they are dynamically allocated making the process nearly impossible.
@Knurek: Yes, the Final Lap versions are 100% necessary, lol. ;-) (They are in the Mario Kart Wii rip [Which is the only one that has them])
- by Mouser X at 12:41 AM EST on January 11, 2009
- If you couldn't modify USFs to mute channels, then Banjo-Kazooie (and Tooie) and other games with dynamic tracks couldn't be ripped. On the other hand, maybe the ripper isn't muting channels (in software mind you, which the emulator can't effect) so much as they are deleting the samples used in those channels, which, I would think, would essentially have the same effect. If that's what's happening (disabling the samples somehow, but leaving the channel playing (resulting in silence)), then I would think that a similar method could be used in 2SF ripping. That is, removing samples from a particular song to, in effect, mute channels.
This method can't be used on the current 2SF ripping method (which uses the Yoshi's Island driver) because the audio data is being indirectly handled by the ripper (they never actually "see" the sequence/sample data in a form that allows them to modify it appropriately. I suppose you could attempt hex editing stuff, but that would require a fair amount of knowledge about the files you're working with. The auto-ripping method does not require this level of knowledge. It's almost as easy as "point and click" to rip 2SFs). To successfully rip dynamic 2SFs, I can see it being done in 1 of 2 ways.
1) The game is ripped properly, with its own original driver. During this process, the ripper identifies how the music is put together in memory, and realizes how to mute channels. With this knowledge, they rip the tracks as you'd expect to hear them in-game.
2) Someone who's familiar with the "generic driver" sequence format would need to hex edit the various files to, I would assume, remove certain pieces of the sequence, resulting in "muted" channels. These modified files could (theoretically?) then be inserted into the Yoshi's Island driver, and you'd basically end up with a "generic rip-kit" rip, using those modified files.
I don't know if method 2 would even work, but as far as I know, it sounds like it could. However, I wouldn't recommend that method, as it sounds very hackish to me (though, there are those who would say the same thing about the current 2SF ripping method).
I suspect that for the impatient/ADD people, I wrote to much. Sorry about that. In short, yes, you can do that with USFs. Mouser X over and out.
- by unknownfile at 12:43 AM EST on January 11, 2009
- get on irc you crazy bum monkey
that's where the fun is right now
watch me struggle with desmume! ain't that sweet?
- by Knurek at 1:41 AM EST on January 11, 2009
- well, it's not like you tag anything either
Actually I do. The games that either have an OST or a soundtest and, you know, ones that I like. Did at least the Phoenix Wright games, Layton, Order of Ecclessia and Knights in the Nightmare, prolly more.
edited 1:57 AM EST January 11, 2009
- by Lunar at 4:27 AM EST on January 11, 2009
- Mouser X: I wasn't proposing anything, I was saying it's already there. However, yes, voices/parts seem to be allocated to the channels dynamically, now that I've tested it. It's sometimes that way with SPCs too - I call it trackfucked :D and yes, deleting samples works quite well in those instances, i've done it with SPC2IT conversions while transcribing. Problem is when multiple channels/musical lines use the same sample.
edited 5:49 AM EST January 11, 2009
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