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by hcs at 9:45 AM EDT on September 7, 2005

It's odd that there should be problems with the sound output, I cheated and more or less directly copied the Winamp interface code from the old version. I'll be rewriting that soon and I'll test it out in XMPlay.

Oh, and I don't really like Mountain Dew, it's just what was in the fridge.

edited 1:46 PM EDT September 7, 2005

by hcs at 3:12 PM EDT on September 7, 2005

64th Note v1.0 beta3

I fixed the timing (I had used a long for the cumulative time, the fractions of usecs thrown out added up to seconds off by the end of tracks, now I have a double), and visualizations work as well. I cleaned up how the end of track shutdown works, also.

I tested it out in XMPlay and it seems to work fine (but then again so did the last version). I also tried JTFE and it didn't seem to crash, so if you could send me the crash log from that it might help. Also check for plugins that might be interfering, like the one PdZ suggested.

New version by marioman at 4:08 PM EDT on September 7, 2005

I tried out the new build, and I got 0 (as in ZERO) crashes. So, whatever you did fixed the crashing for me.

However, I found one minor thing that might need to be looked into. (You know I just HAD to find one problem.) When you play a timed file and then switch to an untimed file, Winamp applies the time from the timed file to the untimed file.

Example:

I play a file that is 3:00 long.
I load an untimed file in the playlist.
The playlist (not the seek time) shows 5:12 as default the time for the untimed file.
I press the play button.
The untimed file starts playing, but the time on the seek time is 3:00.

This gets really annoying when you have just played a file that is less than 30 sec, but, like I said, it is a minor deal. Everything else sounds/looks great. Thanks.

(By the way, you are right - that dog on Animal Forest sounds hilarious. Is he supposed to be singing in Japanese, or is he just singing jibberish? Very funny.)

edited 8:10 PM EDT September 7, 2005

by Mouser X at 6:24 PM EDT on September 7, 2005

When I said that JTFE brings up a "debug.txt" everytime Winamp crashes, I ment EVERY time Winamp crashes, regardless of the problem (a week or 2 ago I was doing something (I don't remember what) that caused Winamp to crash, everytime, without fail. I think it had to do with the Media Library, but I can't remember). In other words, the txt file might help.

However, in regards to checking for bugs, I personaly doubt it's JTFE (since it's shipped with Winamp, just not the version I'm using, so it does of course put JTFE in the position to be the problem, but I doubt it). But I will have to agree with PdZ in that it could be an input plugin causing the problem. In fact, I'm fairly certain the one that caused him problems is the one that caused me problems. It's called "in_ym.dll." It plays compressed GYM files (which is why I use it. It's cut down GYM size from 6mb to 100kb). It's gone through numerous iterations, some of which were not done by the original author of that plugin. Also, another good reason to believe that it's the culprit here is because it has been proven to cause problems in the past. I don't remember what other plugins it's interfered with, but it hasn't given me any problems in a very long time, so whatever plugins they were I either don't use, or they have gone through enough newer versions (and improvements) that they no longer conflict. Another thing to note is that this GYM plugin hasn't seen an update in about 5 years. In other words, don't expect anyone, let alone the author, to fix that plugin to cooporate with 64th Note. Considering how often I listen to GYMs, if it becomes a serious problem, I'll probably have to let the GYM plugin go... :(

Anyway, since I'm not home right now, I can't test out the new beta to see what results it has on my machine. However, I should be home within the hour. I'll try it out then. One last note. When I tried beta 2, it didn't crash until I tried to play another file (using HE). What I mean is, I'd play a USF (any, it would seem), and no sound would come out. I'd stop it, (since Winamp was still in the "play" mode), go to a new track (those being PSF), and play it. That would often work, but when I went back to the USF, it wouldn't play again (this time being a different USF from a different set). Then, when I went to a new track (being PSF again), it would crash, and "debug.txt" would appear. Just thought I'd let you know.

[EDIT] Oh, and the problem listed above by marioman wasn't exactly present in beta 2, but it was there. When I loaded a USF into the playlist, it would say, for ex: "New Tetris - Dvie (or something)" with the track time. However, if I was on "Chrono Trigger - Singing Mountain" and then went to the USF, the USF would take on the previous track's info, and say "Chrono Trigger - Singing Mountain." However, I didn't notice wether it effected the track times or not. Also, it only did this if I didn't stop the previous track first. At the time, I was listening to a PSF from the Super Robot Wars Alpha set (unlreased), and the USF appeared as "Gundam Wing - White Reflection" because I skipped to the USF without stopping the song first. If I recall, it didn't go through the info change if I stopped the song first. I'll see if this is still the case with beta 3 when I get home. [/EDIT]

I'll let you know how the new beta runs on my machine in about 1 hour. Thanks in advance. Mouser X over and out.

edited 10:31 PM EDT September 7, 2005

YM2612 and Winamp Plugins by marioman at 7:40 PM EDT on September 7, 2005

I CAN'T STAND YMAMP!!!!! For starters, it doesn't play the instruments right. I have compared actual .wav rips that I have made from a real Genesis to the output of YMAmp, and the plugin output absolutely stinks. Secondly, as you said, it is very unpredictable. I had major problems with it too. The only thing that YMAmp is good for is tagging GYMs; that is it.

Although YMAmp DOES support the enhanced compression, it is some type of specialized Zlib compression unique to YMAmp and is not able to be read by any other plugin/utility. Therefore, it does help with the file size issue, but it sends the compatibility down the drain.

If you want a good GYM player, I suggest in_gym. It is not very configurable and it does not allow you to edit tags, but it produces the most accurate sound of any GYM plugin available.

I have done much research on GYM accuracy, and I have concluded that the GYM output from any plugin is not perfect. So, I messed with my EQ settings in Winamp until a came up with a setting that, when used in conjunction with in_gym, sounds almost exactly like the real thing. I guess I could post the settings if you really wanted them.

So, anyway, there is my off-topic two cents worth.

by Mouser X at 8:06 PM EDT on September 7, 2005

Well, I've removed "in_ym.dll" and "gen_jumpex.dll" (which I assume is JTFE),and still no sound. Even on the sets that worked under v0.10. However, on a positive note, it hasn't crashed... I think I'll send the "debug.txt" to you, and see if it might help (don't get your hopes up, I have no idea what that file actually contains).

As for YMAMP, marioman, if you don't like it, what other GYM player would you recommend that provides compression? Or that reads through compression? I'm not one of those "It's not 110% like the original so it's useless." people. In other words, audio quality isn't my aim. It sounds good enough for me. I use YMAMP because it provides excellent compression for those nasty huge GYMs. If there's another Winamp plugin that you know of that provides compression (it doesn't even have to be as good of compression as YMAMP), then let me know, and I'll look into it.

As for incompatibilty issues, if you use Foobar2k, then whatever GYM plugin comes with that reads the YMAMP compressed files just fine. I tried it out just to see how well it worked. I was rather impressed that it read the YMAMP compressed GYM files. Anyway, that's just to let you know that not everyone is a purest... Any alternatives you have to offer though I'm open to, so long as they provide compression.

Also, it would seem that YMAMP isn't what was causeing the lack of audio output. Neither was JTFE, or even my (meaning I use it) really spiffy plugin that puts the song title, and time, and even playback buttons on the currently active titlebar, responsible for the lack of audio out. I guess my next best method would be to start from scratch and start adding stuff until it no longer works... Anyway, I'll send that txt file when I get the chance. Mouser X over and out.

by hcs at 12:58 AM EDT on September 8, 2005

Are you using an unusual output plugin, perhaps?

And I'll take a look at these problems with track titles and times...

by marioman at 5:56 AM EDT on September 8, 2005

OK, OK....maybe I did sound like a perfectionist, but I am not trying to be one. I usually do not care if a plugin is somewhat off, but when I listened to the YMAmp output I thought that it was so inaccurate that I chose not use it. (It takes a lot to make me dislike an output plugin.) So, I just wanted to clarify my position - I am not really a fanatic.

As far as the compression goes, I forgot about the Foobar plugin. I tried that one out myself and thought that it sounded very good. The only reason that I don't use it is because I am pretty well established in Winamp and would not be interested in switching back and forth between players every time I want to change music formats. I don't know of a good Winamp plugin that does support that compression. Again, it is YMAmp specific, and I cannot find a Winamp plugin that will support it. (Aside from YMAmp itself.) However, I have heard that plugins exist where you can put music files in .RAR format and Winamp will decode them and play them back using the proper plugin. I have not confirmed this, but I have heard rumor about it. So, my suggestion would be for you to use in_gym, but you can do what you feel is best.

On a more on-topic note, I did finally get the new beta to crash twice. It crashed for me both ways that I mentioned before. (Error then crash, and close without error.) The only thing is that both times it crashed, I was playing tracks from the new Paper Mario set. So, I don't know if it is a Paper Mario specific problem or not.

Thanks for looking into these problems.

by Mouser X at 6:34 AM EDT on September 8, 2005

Well, I finally found out what plugin was causing the problems. It was another of DrO's plugins (he's makeing JTFE for Winamp. From what I gather, he's actually on contract with them, so JTFE is actually pretty good, most of the time. Which is why v0.97 isn't final yet, there's still some issues being worked out on it). This plugin is called "in_zip" and allows Winamp to play files from compressed archives (ZIP, RAR, and even 7zip, or something). It's in the beta stages right now, and hasn't seen an "official" release from DrO (that's his forum name, by the way). In other words, JTFE is probably more reliable than in_zip is right now. As such, I've removed in_zip. However, what this means for me is that marioman's above recommendation can't be followed because I no longer have a plugin that can read from archived files. Well dang.

As for the titling errors, they disappeared when I removed in_zip. Apparently, in_zip is doing some pretty screwy things to cause those errors. Either that, or 64th Note (or in_zip for that matter) is to beta to to be considered safely stable/not conflict with other plugins.

Thanks again for the help, and time spent to sift through this mess. Mouser X over and out.

by hcs at 7:48 AM EDT on September 8, 2005

so did just the titling errors go away with in_zip or can you now actually use the player?

I've also noticed issues with Paper Mario being more crashy than other USF sets. I don't think it's a problem with Paper Mario, since the same tracks don't regularly crash, but more likely something in 64th Note that is brought out by something PM is doing.

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