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by CyberBotX at 7:01 PM EDT on March 30, 2013
I added the rename option to 2SF Tags to NCSF.

I downloaded the 2SF set of EO3 and then made an NCSF set of the game from ROM. I played both in Winamp and they start off exactly the same. I'm not sure if that means I've fixed something in in_ncsf in the last few days or if my own version of in_2sf is flawed. But whatever pop there is, it sounds like it's there in both the 2SF and the NCSF. It may just be a tad bit more pronounced in the NCSF.
by Knurek at 2:00 AM EDT on March 31, 2013
I've updated my plugin, seems you sneaked in a hidden update ;), but the problem persists. Might be something to do with me using XMplay, but I couldn't get the plugin to work with Winamp, so can't compare.

I've uploaded comparison wavewrites - this is how it sounds for me, really pronounced in the NCSF version, unnoticeable in the 2SF version.


Oh, and if you want to take a look at how the SMAP can work, take a look at Snakemeat's SDATOPT, should be up somewhere on the VGMToolbox page.

edited 2:01 AM EDT March 31, 2013
by CyberBotX at 2:57 AM EDT on March 31, 2013
Hmm, are you putting zlib1.dll into the Winamp directory or the plugin directory? Needs to be the former, Winamp is kinda weird about where extra DLLs go. Otherwise I have no idea why it wouldn't work in Winamp, since that is what I use. What version of Winamp?

I'm still not sure what would cause the pop. It's pretty hard to debug the actual music itself, since you can't run the debugger and listen to what is playing at the same time. I also don't know if the issue would be with how I get the sound from the SWAVs or if it's a problem with the FeOS Sound System library that I adapted for this.

As for the SMAP thing, I was going to see how VGMToolbox does it and do something similar. It might be slightly different in terms of what filenames will show up, but otherwise, I'll try to make it look close to the same.
by Knurek at 3:14 PM EDT on April 1, 2013
XMPlay's author responded to the plugin crash query:

When you press "stop", XMPlay will ask the plugin via its SetOutputTime function to seek back to the start, ready to play again. The plugin's Stop function unloads the file, so that isn't called until the track is unloaded, eg. when you press "stop" again. In this case, the plugin is crashing shortly after the SetOutputTime call. In fact, any seeking backwards is resulting in a crash here, and it's happening with Winamp too.

Hope this helps a bit.

The EO3 issue seems likely to be a problem with sample decoding. Since VGMStream supports SWAV, you can just compare your output to the stuff from here and see if there are any differences.
by CyberBotX at 6:44 PM EDT on April 1, 2013
That helped a lot, actually! I wasn't properly handling the case of seeking backwards with the NCSF plugin. I've fixed it now, and neither Winamp nor XMPlay crash when I seek backwards or when I stop in XMPlay. I've put up an updated version of in_ncsf now.

As for sample decoding, I'm not sure. I did notice in my early testing that some of the ADPCMs that I decoded sounded a little different compared to how VGMStream plays them, yet in most cases, even with that, the final SSEQ output sounded correct for the most part. I've looked over the code for the IMA ADPCM decoding and I can't see anything wrong with it. The only other thing I can think of is that it might have to do with how I set the starting sample when setting up the note for a track.
by CyberBotX at 11:05 PM EDT on April 2, 2013
So I put up a new version of in_ncsf just now, the main thing is that I added 3 more interpolation techniques to it. It now contains B-spline, Hermite, and an "optimal" algorithm. I got them from Olli Niemitalo ( It may not be the Sinc interpolation that JFD62780 asked for, but he said it was good enough for him. :P

Oh, and I did find a song that currently doesn't play correctly with NCSF. The opening for Kirby Super Star Ultra, while it plays fine in the 2SF set, doesn't play correctly in the NCSF set. It sounds like it's missing an instrument or something. I haven't dug much further into it yet to see where the fault is.
by JFD62780 at 7:37 PM EDT on April 3, 2013
I'm amazed that the plugin has matured as quickly as it has. Now that the plugin's matured, I'm issuing a Call To Arms, as it were; The NCSF library, as it is, is too small. Not to mention, the only game I'm personally familiar with (Chrono Trigger) don't quite have the magic of the SNES original (though the bonus tracks it does have ain't that bad).

In short, the format needs more soundtrack releases. Don't believe me? Listen to a soundtrack with Optimal mixing and tell me that don't sound Studio Quality! ;D

(tl;dr, I want the Castlevania games, Planet Puzzle League, Sonic Rush and Contra 4, plz! (I kid.))

EDIT: Just to be clear, I do NOT want all the work to be solely dumped on CBX; he had enough on his plate creating the format! Why, he created, listed, and is hosting, the tools in its creation on his site. So what are y'all waiting for? >;)

edited 9:56 PM EDT April 3, 2013
by Knurek at 2:26 AM EDT on April 4, 2013
Not to be too much of a dick, but what are you waiting for then?

CBX has provided his ripping tools and the process isn't more complicated than using 2SF ripkit/VGMToolbox.

To reiterate - this is not something like custom driver PSF/GSF/USF, or older console rip formats which required technical knowledge (and a lot of work) to do. Just grab the NDS game you like to have, run it through CBX tool and you're done (baring any playback problems, like with that Kirby track).

There's really no need to involve other people here. Really :)
by Elven Spellmaker at 6:43 AM EDT on April 4, 2013
On a slightly related note, what happened to Unknownfile?

Has anyone heard from him? He seems to have dropped off the earth recently, but he used to post here all the time.
by nothingtosay at 1:56 AM EDT on April 5, 2013
I'm quite happy that you made this. I like the new interpolation methods, which really help eliminate the DS crackling and nastiness. I also like the sample rate options. These are both things I'd wished was possible with the current 2SF plugin, so it's great that you've fulfilled that wish.

There is one thing I have to ask about though: the output volume is higher than with the 2SF plugin and can cause audible distortion. Reducing the volume in the tag and in the plugin configuration don't help because they reduce it after it's been mixed together and the damage has already been done (this is also a problem that occurs with 2SF amd many other plugins for xSF formats. I think PSF is the only one where turning it down in the tag does prevent clipping). Would it be possible to implement the volume change during the mixing rather than after and prevent clipping?

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